Mr. D's Notes on I Timothy
Rev. Stanley L. Derickson Ph.D.
Copyright 2000

CHAPTER 13

Let me begin by saying this is where I get myself into deep trouble. We are going to talk about women and talking.

Where I work, we purchased a new vacuum cleaner about the same time we hired a woman to do some vacuuming. We add longer cords to the units to make it easier to use and I did not have the new one ready.

The woman started work and became accustomed to the older, heavier vacuums. At some point in time she decided she couldn't use the older one, but that maybe the newer one was lighter and easier to use. I told her to try it and see if this was true. It was and so she started using it.

About two months later one morning I noticed that she was using one of the older units. I did not ask why as she tended not to be super coherent when she talked. Later she asked me if I had fixed her vacuum. I replied that I did not know that it had a problem - that I would look at it later that day. She told me she had heard something break and that it didn't work like it used to.

I checked the unit over and found nothing wrong with it so set it aside and told her the next day that it was functioning the way it should and that I couldn't find anything that was broken.

She came to me the next day and said "Did you know ahh - my vacuum - ahh - well ah - it doesn't - well you know - ah - well I tried another one and it - well it is the same - did you find anything wrong with my - well the old one is like the new one - do you know what I'm talking about?"

I told her I did not - she continued in a similar manner for awhile, then I decided there was something wrong with the new vacuum as well as one of the older ones. I said "what is wrong with them?" "Well they don't - ah - well go down." "You mean the handle doesn't go down - WELL NO IT DOESN'T!"

I said "let's go see." We went upstairs and I looked at the new one. Nothing wrong that I could find. She was quite insistent that it was broken. She wanted me to check it out and fix it. I told her it was working as it was designed. I said “Let's go down and look at the other one that you were using in the basement."

When we arrived in the basement I asked where the vacuum was. WELL IT'S UP THERE WERE WE JUST CAME FROM. I said no, not the new one - where is the old one. Well it is up there! I said up where - she said "we just looked at it." "I said no that is the new one, where is the old one you are using." "WELL IT'S IN THE BASEMENT!" I said, "we are in the basement what part of the basement is it in?" "WELL IT'S OUT THERE IN THE BEDDING AREA."

I went out and found the older vacuum to be working fine as well. I told her and she told me quite plainly that it wasn't working the way the new one used to.

I said they are working fine and that she had to use one of them and left.

At quitting time she started in again. "What do you think is wrong with these vacuums?" I replied "nothing" - that both were working properly. She said that the new one used to stop in the middle and it was easier to use. This is the first time I realized what she was talking about. The new one was stiff when it arrived and the stiffness had gone away as it was broken in. One of the other fellows explained that was what it probably was. "Well, I sure wish someone would fix it." "Mine broke, I heard it, it doesn't work like it used to."

Exit walking quickly forward while standing on tongue.

As I was leaving, she said, "Well are you going to fix it?" I returned and attempted to explain that it was okay - that it was stiff, but now it was functioning properly.

"Well you need to do something about it."

Exit walking quicker.

The next day we three entered the elevator at the same time (she, her vacuum and you know who). As the door closed, she released the handle and moved it up and down and quietly said, "Hum, doesn't lock like it used to."

Exit elevator forward containing laughter.

End of discussion. Woman had final word. Discussion closed.

At quitting time I had the misfortune to be in the shop when she brought her vacuum up. "I heard something the other day, I really think something is broken. I don't want to - ah - make a point of this but I think it is broken."

I again replied with the usual "working as designed," "stiff when new" options.

"Well, uh if you went to the dentist and he told you something, uh wouldn't you want to see what someone else had to say - wouldn't you want a second opinion?"

"There is nothing wrong with the vacuum." "Do you suppose you should check it again, I know there is something wrong with it." I told her I had taken it apart twice and that there was nothing wrong. I told her I was sure one of the other men had looked at it before I had, hoping that she would accept one of us as her second opinion. Not to be.

"Well maybe someone else could look at it and see if they can find out what is wrong with it."

I said that it seemed to be okay as I took the bottom off for the third time. I called her over and showed her how the handle and release worked and that it couldn't work any other way. I said "see - it stops at the first stop, then you release it again and it goes on a little further" - "And it used to stop in the middle!" "See there is something wrong with it!" "No, there has never been a stop in the middle - it was stiff."

She said "Well, I know that is what you think but maybe - you know"

She continued, "Well I'm not trying to judge - I don't think we should judge" INTERRUPTING I said "It isn't about judging it is about looking at the facts - the two vacuums are identical - the handles came from the same factory" SHE INTERRUPTS "but that one is older!" I informed her that the new handle on the old vacuum had been purchased/installed at the same time as we purchased the new vacuum.

"Well then why don't you compare it to the other vacuums?" “I have - they all work the same, they are all designed the same."

"Well I'm not questioning your ability but maybe someone else could find why it doesn't work right."

I invited her to open it up and find the problem herself. "Well I'm not a mechanic but maybe someone else could ---"

Tongue firmly between teeth.

She went on, "Well I know that is what you believe but I know something is wrong."

Tongue clinched between teeth.

"Then you're not going to do anything?"

Exit forward speedily - tongue in great pain.

I’m not suggesting Paul was talking about this woman, but there are times when women can be somewhat difficult control when it comes to their speaking.

I. WOMAN'S POSITION

Let us view woman's position before God and man.

2:11 "Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection."

This is a new thought from Paul concerning worship.

Fact: "Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection." Paul also mentioned a similar thought in I Cor. 14:32,35. This verse indicates keep peace in the church is the thought of the word.

Some feel the word has the thought of quietness with silence being a possibility.

Yes, we can easily say this is cultural. Yes, we can say that this is Paul's Parasitical prejudice. Yes, we can say a lot of things about this text that the text doesn't say about itself.

Just what is Paul trying to get at?

I suggest that he is trying to say that women should be quiet in the church. Not quiet as in gagged, though that may have been close to the case in Ephesus, but quiet partners with the men of the church. I must admit there have been times in my own ministry where a gag or two would have been a real blessing.

To support my choice of the word quiet: The word translated silence is translated quietness in II Thess. 3.11 "For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies. 12 Now them that are such we command and exhort by our Lord Jesus Christ, that with quietness they work, and eat their own bread."

It might be of note that the American Standard Version translators used quiet instead of silent in all four of the places where the word occurs. The word comes from a word that relates to quietness, so this might be a better thought. It is also used in Acts 22.2. "(And when they heard that he spake in the Hebrew tongue to them, they kept the more silence: and he saith,) "

One further proof that this should be quiet rather than silent is found back up in verse one. The term translated peaceable is the adjective form of our word translated silent. Quiet or peaceable seems to be a better thought than silence in my mind. I don't know exactly the meaning in King James English, but quietness seems the thought of the original language.

We went to speak in a church in Denver in the late 80's which had a very different worship service. The men and women sat in a large square, while the children sat QUIETLY in a row of smaller chairs in front of their own parents. There was no leader for the service, but the women spoke through their husbands if they wanted a particular song or passage and that usually at home before they left for church. The husbands would request that the group sing a song, read a passage, or he might share some thoughts from the Scriptures.

It was not that the men wanted to rule over the women and shut them up, they just wanted the service to draw as little attention to mankind as possible and throw all of the attention upon the Lord and His worship. They had the Lord's table set in the center and it was always the center of attention.

Ray Stedman has a good quote: "Women are not to have an attitude of argumentative aggressiveness, assertiveness, or stubborn insistence on having their own way or their own view recognized. Rather, their attitude is to be one of reasonableness, patience, and a willingness to listen to others."

I would assume that if there is a difference of opinion, it ought to be kept to herself and handled with her husband at home.

I don't feel that I would be out of line to say that in my own life I have seen any false teaching come forth from a man in any session that I have taught in, yet several times I have had women totally disrupt sessions with false teaching or arguing that was very unnecessary.

Let me be quick also to state that the women are usually the ones that tend to enter into discussion quicker than men. Their input is usually very good and meaningful to the subject at hand.

I wonder if Paul's comments on women aren't aimed at discouraging the false teaching and arguing thought. He mentions that they should ask of their husbands at home etc. It would be good if a woman has questions about a lesson that she go home and sit down with her husband and talk it over with the Word.

A real problem today is that the man would not be able to look at the word and find an answer to the question. This is probably why we have gotten away from this concept of Paul's.

My wife will quite often ask me if what she is thinking is right, and then share it in a class, or just ask for her own information.

I think also that part of what Paul is getting at is that women tend to accept the thinking of others too easily. Eve is a good example. She latched right onto what the Devil told her. It took a real man to thumb his nose outwardly at God!

The false doctrine that has interrupted my studies often comes from the woman listening to the radio preachers and accepting all that they say as Gospel truth and not thinking about it or checking it with Scripture or their husband.

When teaching I had a female student that disagreed with me and began arguing very loudly and forcefully. Basically she was repeating what her father had taught her. I finally shifted subjects and finished the class. This was very disruptive and disrespectful. We had a guest speaker's wife in the class and as I left, I over heard the speaker’s wife and the student talking about the text again. They stopped me and the speaker's wife started in that she also thought I was wrong.

I finally requested that they both go study it for themselves before the Lord in the Word. I went to the library and found that none of the commentaries held what they believed and most held what I had taught. I then went to the office and restudied the text just to be sure. The point being - a quiet questioning after class would not have disrupted an entire class.

Some feel that Paul is trying to make a positive in these texts. They believe that he is encouraging women to be in teaching sessions and learning.

In the Jewish life women were pretty much left out of things if not refused learning of spiritual matters.

2:12 "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence."

Paul says he does not permit a woman to teach, or usurp authority over the man

The term translated “man” is - "ondrous" - mature as opposed to a boy.

A quote may help: "The Gospel elevated the woman and gave her a position of spiritual equality with the man before God, but it does not remove the original position of subordination that God ordained for the woman." (First Timothy; D. Edmond Hiebert; Moody Press; Chicago; 1957, p 60)

I'm not sure this quote is all together true. I think she had equality before. There is nothing to suggest woman is less than man spiritually. They are the same, however there is an order of creation and an element of subordination in life.

The thought of equality before God is very Biblical as well as the thought that during her earthly time she is also to her husband and while in church to the male leadership.

Don't tar me and feather me, but allow me to literally view the scriptures in the plain easy way of understanding them. If Paul tells me that a woman is not to teach men then I believe that she is not to teach men. If Paul says that women are not to usurp authority over men then I believe that women should not usurp authority over men.

"but to be in silence"

This quote came from a Sunday school lesson book some years ago.

"In public worship the ladies must assume the attitude of a learner; they must sit quietly and listen to instruction `with all subjection' (verse 11). Modern movements to achieve an imagined emancipation and independence of women are both unbiblical and unnatural. Such attempts are a revolt against a woman's divinely constituted being and role."

"It is absolutely a disgrace for any man to sit in public at the feet of his wife or any other woman while she presumes to expound Scripture. By subjecting himself to her authority, he virtually betrays his trust as `head of the woman..' The teaching of Christian doctrine in the public assembly is reserved exclusively for the men (verse 12). Shortages in the pulpits of the land can never justify the unscriptural practice of ordaining women or permitting them to preach." (Keeping the Faith; Baptist Pub.; Denver; 1971; Adult teacher SS Quarterly, p16)

I might add that this is quite humorous when you relate it to the fact that the same company published adult Sunday school literature written by a woman!

A woman writing material is not only teaching the man teacher, but she is also influencing the men that he might teach.

A number of years ago I ordered some adult Sunday school materials from a publisher. The material came and it was written by a woman. I returned them with a nice letter stating that I did not care to use materials written by a woman.

I received back a very curt letter from the editor telling me what for. His thinking was that there are only a few good Sunday school material writers and that he would use any that he wanted - male or female.

I sent a letter to him and explained this text to him and told him that he was free to use women writers and that I was free not to use women writers based on the Word.

I received another letter from him that was very nice. He admitted that I was right and that he would try to refrain from using women writers again.

In the Women's Liberation movement most reject the Bible. Some say the Bible teaches Women's Lib. God is She. I say anyone that says that is blaspheming God's name. You ask why. God is the Father of Jesus, Mary was Jesus mother. If God be a She then God is a homosexual and a freak of nature that can produce a child unnaturally without a father. I reject, as the height of false teaching and ignorance, this line of thinking.

WHY SHOULD A WOMAN NOT TEACH? Not because I said it. Not because Paul said it. Because it reverses the roles set by the creation and the fall -- Woman was to be a helpmeet not a boss and she was the one easily deceived.

Some theologians that desire to allow for the women's lib movement have come up with a view that allows the person to give lip service to belief in what Paul states about the woman teaching men, yet allows women to teach men.

They hold that the woman is not to teach men unless the man gives the woman permission to teach men. That is not in the verse, nor can you draw it as a principle from this verse!

Others state that the pastor can give authority to the woman to teach. She through the pastor usurps authority of men sitting in the congregation - in my opinion.

Jimmy Carter when asked about this text stated that this is one area in which he disagreed with Paul. ON NATIONAL TELEVISION HE OUTWARDLY DISAGREED WITH GOD'S WORD.

In many churches across the country women are teaching men in things concerning the Word. This is not to be.

I must admit that some of the women teachers I have heard in adult classes are as good if not better than some of the men, however that is not the criterion. Scripture is our criterion and the Lord says that women should not teach men. I tolerate it once in awhile because we are invited into the situation.

We filled the pulpit in a little church in Wyoming and the adult teacher was a woman. The woman admitted she didn't like it but none of the men would do it so she decided to go ahead - my question is, if she hadn't taken the position would a man have assumed it even though he felt inadequate? Again I have to admit that she was an excellent teacher and understood the Word better than many men I have sat under.

The good women teachers ought to be teaching the other women of the church as we will see if we get to Titus in our study. Titus 2:3-5 if you want to look at it on your own.

The pastor and leaders must screen the materials used in their church and be able to assure themselves as well as their congregation that the materials are of sufficient quality. They are also responsible for assuring proper teachers both in gender and qualifications.

SO! Just what place does a woman have in a class or service? I believe that a good application of this verse would run along the following lines:

a. A woman can enter into discussions as long as she does not become argumentative with the men in the class. If she indeed, feels that she is correct and the men are wrong, she should not push for vindication, but go home and seek information from her husband and if she is correct, a visit with the teacher and the couple for some good discussion IN LOVE to see if things can be cleared up would be in order. I think if the leader is spiritual at all he will correct his thinking and correct things in class. I know of no one in the ministry that is really interested in teaching false doctrine.

b. Women should check things that they believe with their husbands if they find that their belief is counter to the usual teaching of the church.

c. They should be very careful what they listen to on radio and television. They should also compare what they hear with Scripture and then discuss it with their husband. This would also include the myriads of books on the market.

This is not to say that women should not teach! They should be teaching. They should teach other women as well as children.

It is my personal preference to see women teach no higher than 6th graders. The older young people need the man to teach if at all possible. A lady teaching the girls could be very good as well. At the same time, I am not saying that only women can teach children either. I, again personally would rather see the children's classes manned by men as well.

Now let's move on to the why of this limitation.

II. WOMAN'S PROBLEM

2:13 "For Adam was first formed, then Eve."

Woman was formed to give man a helpmeet, someone that could minister to him in ways that he has need.

Wesley stated that this verse shows that the woman was inferior to the man - HE SAID IT NOT ME!

2:14 "And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression."

Gen. 3:16 shows she is also under man due to the fall. Gen. 3:16 states, "Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and they conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee."

Many hold that the desire that the woman is to have for her husband is the sexual desire, and/or the love desire. If you really think about that, it does not fit the text well at all. This is just after they sinned and God is bringing forth punishment and consequences. To relegate sexual desire or love to part of punishment just doesn't fit to me.

The word desire is also used in Gen. 4:7. Here we are in the account of Cain and Abel. Cain has offered and his offering has been rejected. Here we see that God is talking with him. "If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him."

Cain is told that evil will desire to rule him, but that Cain must rule evil instead.

Now, let's reread the last part of Gen. 3:16, "thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee."

It seems to me that God is telling Eve that she will desire to rule her husband, yet this will not be so. He will in turn rule her, or at least this is the proper makeup of the marriage. This is more in keeping with punishment.

"The seduction of Eve provides sufficient evidence that women are not endowed with the faculties of spiritual discernment in matters of doctrine and morals. By nature women tend to rely upon first appearances, feelings, intuitive capacities, and aesthetic sensibilities. These qualities, as excellent as they are, do not equip the fairer sex to exercise independent judgment in governing the church or guiding doctrinal discussions. Because women have a greater potential than men for being beguiled, it is inadvisable to give them positions of authority over men." (Keeping the Faith; Baptist Pub.; Denver; 1971; Adult SS Quarterly, p 11)

I think this quote is a little harsh, though the principle seems correct.

The Jehovah Witnesses realize this, I think. They call in the day time when men are at work. Every time I've come home and they were there they fled. They hardly say goodbye. They know they can double talk many women but that it is difficult to face a man with their false teaching.

The proper order is God, man, woman and children. If the woman usurps, it is God, woman, man and children or at times worse, Woman, God, man and children.

There is another thought that Wesley mentions in relation to the woman. He not only noted that she is more easily deceived, but also more easily deceives. I think from personal experience this is probably true. When our kids were at home, our sons were right up front - like Adam - when they went against us. Our daughter on the other hand was quite deceptive in her disobedience.

Woman has a proper position due to her problem, however God gives her a promise and I believe a compensation.

III. WOMAN'S PROMISE

2:15 "Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety."

Many are the suggestions about the meaning of this difficult expression. We may not answer this one completely.

Let us just list some of the possible explanations of this text.

1. She will be spared becoming totally involved in the world system or society because she is home taking care of kids. She will be spared the troublesomeness of being out in the world.

Well, that doesn't really fit in our world. If this was a promise of God, many Christian women are not enjoying it today.

2. Some suggest that she will get safely through childbirth - not succumbing to death.

I'm not sure that I would want to state that, because I have no facts to state that a Christian woman has never died in giving birth to a child.

3. Some teach that having many children results in better chances of entering into heaven. This is not acceptable! Salvation is based on the Blood of Christ not a woman having children.

4. It has been suggested that she will be saved from not being "worthless" spiritually. She will be serving God by giving birth to and raising children. She is being saved from being fruitless - due to her limitation in teaching in the assembly - but will be very productive as a mother.

The term translated saved can be used of being saved from destruction, but it also has the thought of saved TO completeness. The woman is completed in childbirth might be the thought here. I think most women would agree to this thought that having a child completes them as a woman.

Paul adds some modifiers to the thought of raising kids as well. He encourages faith, charity, holiness, and sobriety. I would challenge all women to study that list that Paul gives to you to live up to!

Not to say that the fellows shouldn't take a look at the list for themselves!

Faith that continues is faith that is always there to meet the needs in prayer and trusting the Lord for answers to life's problems.

Charity that continues is love that is available at all times. Not just now and then when you want to - but all the time - anytime that someone needs it.

Holiness that continues is holiness that is always there. The children and husband never need to worry about this woman - they know that she is walking with God. It is a holiness that is always there. You don't find the holiness going in the glove box when they get behind the wheel, or the holiness that stays in the closet when the gossip session begins.

Sobriety relates to soundness of mind. The woman is in control of her mind at all times. She doesn't allow it to become clouded by influences from within or from without. (The term only appears here and in I Tim. 2.9 and in Acts 26.25.)

Sobriety that continues is found in the woman that really is together, and together all the time. Things might shake her for a short time, but she is back on top very quickly.

SOME CONCLUSIONS TO OUR STUDY OF CHAPTER TWO:

Paul does not tell us to go out and demonstrate - He tells us to PRAY for the leaders! It isn't that demonstrations are wrong, but it is a question of if they are proper for the believer. How will your testimony wash if someone knows that you have been in that particular demonstration?

It is a matter of whether you are breaking the law or not.

It is a matter of whether God led you into it or someone else.

It is a matter of priorities. We are to be evangelizing the world. How will this demonstration help do that?

Paul stresses prayer and submission. I believe the two go hand in hand. Prayer is of the utmost importance in the Christian's life. If you aren't praying on a regular basis then you are missing God's best blessing. Fellowship with the Creator of the heavens and the earth. It really helps to get prayer into your life.

Some quick thoughts on prayer:

1. Before you ask for anything seek forgiveness for your sin.

2. Be sure you are saved!

3. Be honest with God. Don't try to put on a front for God. I have a hint for you - He knows better!

4. Be regular about it.

5. Try a prayer list. Item, date requested and date answered.

6. Try short prayers through the day when you have a few moments.

7. Be persistent about a request until you feel it is answered.

8. Combine praise with your requests.

9. Be open to God's bidding - He may want you to be part of the answer.

10. Be sure the rest of your life is in proper order - sin wise -service wise - and give wise.

11. Pray with someone else as often as possible.

12. Pray longer than you think you should.

13. Share answered prayer with other Christians. It will encourage you as well as others.

14. If you're just starting a regular prayer life, start with a short but specific amount of time.

I trust that the thoughts given have been uplifting to women. I trust I have not offended anyone - women are God's special gift to men - they are not second class citizens, though our society hasn't really given fact to that as yet. They do have their place in the order of God's plan - a very special place.